{"id":10060,"date":"2021-02-19T14:54:50","date_gmt":"2021-02-19T18:54:50","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/nycphantom.com\/journal\/?p=10060"},"modified":"2022-08-15T15:17:21","modified_gmt":"2022-08-15T19:17:21","slug":"on-ravi-zacharias","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"http:\/\/nycphantom.com\/journal\/?p=10060","title":{"rendered":"On Ravi Zacharias"},"content":{"rendered":"\n<p>It is just a matter of time for me to write this, now, especially after the <a rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" href=\"https:\/\/s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com\/rzimmedia.rzim.org\/assets\/downloads\/Report-of-Investigation.pdf\" target=\"_blank\">revelation\/report<\/a> and <a rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" href=\"https:\/\/www.rzim.org\/read\/rzim-updates\/board-statement\" target=\"_blank\">announcement<\/a> from the post-humous investigation done by RZIM (Ravi's ministry) of Ravi Zacharias' sexual scandals. I'll post the report in the comment, just in case it's removed.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>I checked out what people are talking about it on Facebook, and this is what I in one of a apparently <a rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" href=\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/dr.alex.tang\/posts\/10158461821996996\" target=\"_blank\">Malaysian (DUMC affiliated?)<\/a> thread:<br><em>I did a search, don't know how I get here. I don't need some long essay reflection on this. The reaction is simple:Jesus said not everyone who said \"Lord Lord\" shall enter his kingdom.Am I saying that Ravi's not saved? No.I'm saying don't be surprised if he's not saved.What is the whole point of all this? Just because things are legal or you can hide things, doesn't mean it's right with God; Just because it's illegal or the whole world is against you, doesn't mean that it is wrong with God. Watch your walk and life with God. God is not mocked. No buts.<\/em><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>I don't know where I first heard of Zacharias. Perhaps during my exile in the States. I do remember it was a good impression of him. He is popular for doing Q&amp;A with his audience, so I always love those preachers. Unfiltered responses are hard challenges. I had recommended occasionally his Q&amp;A to others, only Q&amp;A. I've always skipped to Q&amp;A, which are the last parts of his talks. He's the one who talked about the sanctity of sex against LGBT. He shared testimonies like a woman (Edith Taylor) who forgave her husband who married someone else in Japan by even raising his bastard child and took care of his Japanese mistress\/wife. He even shared his admiration (or rather shock, after this scandal of his) of his brother's view on finding a wife - not by desire but by will. I also followed his podcast for a while, until I got bored of it due to repeated content. He seemed to love poems and quoting them, not my thing, but it is fine arts appreciation, no big deal.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>I became worry of his ministry\/theology when he was invited to preach at the Mormon Tabernacle. Not because he was invited (why not, it's a great Gospel opportunity) but how he handled it. There's no clear Gospel message in the talk, it seemed that he was trying to give a Mormon friendly Christian talk, titled \"<a rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" href=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/watch?v=Amun1RBONPw\" target=\"_blank\">The Exclusivity and Sufficiency of Jesus Christ<\/a>\". <\/p>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-embed is-type-video is-provider-youtube wp-block-embed-youtube wp-embed-aspect-4-3 wp-has-aspect-ratio\"><div class=\"wp-block-embed__wrapper\">\nhttps:\/\/www.youtube.com\/watch?v=Amun1RBONPw\n<\/div><\/figure>\n\n\n\n<p>around @21 minute, Mormon founder Joseph Smith was introduced.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>@24 min, someone joked about the mormons as \"the goats\".<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>@1:10:00, he did however call sexual immorality wicked. But maybe only for those against 18 month old or younger.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>@1:33:22 he managed to find a way to sneak in the word \"Trinity\" (not Mormon doctrine) and get applauded for it:<br><em>Wanting to honor your marital commitment yet tempted by lust to be dishonorable, wanting not to be greedy yet tempted by greed on the other side, the lust of the eyes, the lust of the flesh, the pride of life, all of these diverse proclivities, how do we find unity and diversity in our existence\u2026and there is no way else that you'll find unity and diversity in the first cause, except when you find it in the unity and the diversity and the community of the trinity.<\/em><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>The first part, is mystifying human sins by confusing right and wrong and then points to the trinity, without much explanation of what the trinity is. I would assume that the audience who applauded were not aware of what he was actually saying about the trinity but they recognize the superficial climax, hence the applause. In other words, nothing he preached there meant to distinguish Mormonism from Christianity. Since he wouldn't clarify the terms he snuck in, such as \"Trinity\", etc. Now, I do not condone an extreme form of preaching against the Mormons such as pointing out all their faults in doctrines, but what Ravi's doing is just the opposing extreme. There is clearly no responsibility here, merely display of wits in speech and knowledge.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>He was questioned about it:<\/p>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-embed is-type-video is-provider-youtube wp-block-embed-youtube wp-embed-aspect-16-9 wp-has-aspect-ratio\"><div class=\"wp-block-embed__wrapper\">\n<iframe loading=\"lazy\" title=\"Mormon Teaching Ravi Zacharias  (Must See)\" width=\"640\" height=\"360\" src=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/embed\/RArBX64Xno8?feature=oembed\" frameborder=\"0\" allow=\"accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share\" referrerpolicy=\"strict-origin-when-cross-origin\" allowfullscreen><\/iframe>\n<\/div><\/figure>\n\n\n\n<p>He claimed that he did not compromise the doctrine, but not sneaking terms without explanation is in essence, compromising. When challenged, he would compromise not by right or wrong doctrine, but by comparing whether it is \"historical Christianity\" or not. He defined <strong>\"cult\": a departure from the historic person and the work of Christ, though still lays claim to the historic work but has departed from it<\/strong>. Not a bad definition. And about using terms like cult only in classroom and not in public arena, per Ravi, is not wise otherwise, there is truth to it. So I give him that, that he has the wisdom and knowledge to deal with semantics. However, I do believe he has a responsibility to not compromise by colorful speech though the intention may not be so.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>From this, I came to believe one thing of Ravi. He's not afraid of challenging questions, no doubt. However, he would only criticize when being criticized. So, when being invited warmly by the LDS, he would not criticize as he does elsewhere. And of course, from a business perspective, what better way to reinstate your expelled membership from true Christendom by inviting someone celebrated in Christendom to give a talk.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>As a conclusion on this Mormon thing, I wouldn't go so far as to discredit Ravi's whole ministry, if there is a way to connect and build bridge to talk to the Mormons about the Gospel, I've always welcome it. So I thank God for such event by the Mormons. On the most part, I don't have issue with Ravi's speech, it is only what he could have done better (not even a friendly challenge) is what I have issue with and thus, distrust his passion for Q&amp;A from then on. At the same time, I learned to be sharper at distinguishing Mormonism against Christianity, not from Ravi, but from where Ravi failed.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Later I observed and only took interest when special thing like when Ravi visited Stephen Tong, What did he comment about it, etc.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Lastly, the scandal for me is concluded by watching the take by Mike Winger:<\/p>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-embed is-type-video is-provider-youtube wp-block-embed-youtube wp-embed-aspect-16-9 wp-has-aspect-ratio\"><div class=\"wp-block-embed__wrapper\">\n<iframe loading=\"lazy\" title=\"What Ravi Did and Where We Go From Here.\" width=\"640\" height=\"360\" src=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/embed\/PcWeZS3cnNo?feature=oembed\" frameborder=\"0\" allow=\"accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share\" referrerpolicy=\"strict-origin-when-cross-origin\" allowfullscreen><\/iframe>\n<\/div><\/figure>\n\n\n\n<p>Though Winger was too emotional at some points, I would not focus on that nor any minor faulty concepts he presented, like throwing Ravi's books into garbage can, etc. Not my purpose of this entry. Winger brought up lots of details where other online resources failed. Yes, I could read the report myself, but it's 12 page long, I'm not that crazy. Why shouldn't I save time by listening to it while multitasking snow shoveling, which was what I did last night (2\/18\/21). Winger went as far as calling Ravi a fraud, not just non-Christian. I would reserve my judgment on that. I would say Ravi has trained himself well enough to show that he is a Christian, but whether he is or not, I leave it to God. As for my hope for it, I don't have fellowship with him personally, so I lack such hope. As for loving sinners, that's another matter that is best discussed in how to evangelize sinners.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>As far as Ravi's victim goes, mostly massage therapists, whom he tried to seduce into various sexual position and grabbing their breasts, showing them his erection, him keeping photos of women he talked to, including a few nude ones, abusing RZIM ministry funds for his leisure and promoting himself with women in financial need, etc. I can only pray for them. Brad and Lori Anne Thompson were the first couple to try to sue Ravi for I think $5 Million dollars or something, but Ravi was alive at the time and it was obviously his words over theirs, until now. Whether Lori was unstable herself to begin with or not, it doesn't matter in this case, if you want to bring it to court, then you must accept the consequences, win or lose may not justify anything, but you must be prepared for losses as much as you disagree, because you are giving your affairs to be decided by men, you put yourself in the game of reputations, power and influence of men.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>As for Ravi's family, also, prayers and reflection. I thought of how if there would be serious scandals revelation of Stephen Tong after his death, it would be shocking to me because my knowledge of him would stand against all those scandals the likes of Ravi or Jimmy Swaggart. With Ravi, not so much as I did not know him well enough and also was disappointed by his handling with Mormons and the after effect. I didn't care how other reflects their opinion about these folks, very rarely I pay attention or be influenced by opinions like these anymore, simply because they are too shallow. And my memorization of the entire Psalms project helps in this case. Particularly Psalm 5, 12.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\"><li>It's snowing again now as I type, beautifully with big fluffy snow.<\/li><\/ul>\n\n\n\n<p>Interestingly, Ravi's case is unique because it's as if he got away with it as these scandals are verified only after his death. But so what? Even if nobody finds out any bad things I do, will God turn a blind eye as well? For me, at some point in following Ravi's ministry, though not tightly, I concluded that his message focuses are on the art of speech rather than the care for fellowship, so I gradually stopped.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>With regards to seeing who is saved ultimately, it is a fellowship thing. In general, we hope for God's mercy upon sinners, especially those we preached to, regardless of their denial. But at a fellowship level, we have high hope that those whom we fellowship with in Christ, do in fact get saved. If that is why I could so easily not mind about Ravi's unsaved soul, perhaps that is why, that I did not have any fellowship with him at all. With Pak Tong, a little, once or twice. But this could play to my benefit, so that I be more watchful of my walk with God and not have my understanding and relationship with God tainted by human influence. But of course, if I were to have fellowship with Ravi, then I would care about this and that about him, so much that a scandal like this would be hard to miss. And the lesson after that, should I need to confront those whom I fellowship with, what is the wisdom to do so?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Ben Shapiro, told ya you should have interviewed Tong instead of Zacharias!<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>It is just a matter of time for me to write this, now, especially after the revelation\/report and announcement from the post-humous investigation done by RZIM (Ravi's ministry) of Ravi Zacharias' sexual scandals. I'll post the report in the comment, &hellip; <a href=\"http:\/\/nycphantom.com\/journal\/?p=10060\">Continue reading <span class=\"meta-nav\">&rarr;<\/span><\/a><\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[6],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-10060","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-theologization"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"http:\/\/nycphantom.com\/journal\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/10060","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"http:\/\/nycphantom.com\/journal\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"http:\/\/nycphantom.com\/journal\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"http:\/\/nycphantom.com\/journal\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"http:\/\/nycphantom.com\/journal\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcomments&post=10060"}],"version-history":[{"count":19,"href":"http:\/\/nycphantom.com\/journal\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/10060\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":12741,"href":"http:\/\/nycphantom.com\/journal\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/10060\/revisions\/12741"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"http:\/\/nycphantom.com\/journal\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fmedia&parent=10060"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"http:\/\/nycphantom.com\/journal\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcategories&post=10060"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"http:\/\/nycphantom.com\/journal\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Ftags&post=10060"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}