Evangelism of NYC

A call by a pastor to do evangelistic ministry in the city was rejected by me. I had put an entry here before that this pastor is banned from my ministry.

A leaderless ministry? Go to hell, you liar!

Any leaderless ministry is equivalent to a Godless ministry, no matter how much they claim God as the leader.

A ministry is called by God. The one called by God to do the ministry first must lead in that ministry, it is a very simple logic.

This is how today's churches of the West are in chaos, no leaders (except for titles), no one wants responsibilities (unless it is in a group format so no individual can take the blame for a fault).

But overall, I have thought it through, I will sum up the requirement of accepting Christians in my ministry as simply for only:

1. Those who love sinners.

2. Those who are not cowards.

Although I do not mention it, but these two generally cover Ameristians.

So yes, if I say no to them, that means, despite their contrary claim, they neither have the love for sinners, nor are they bold enough to do the ministry, or both.

I've seen how these so called "Christians" walk away from sinners, so I can say 'No' to them.

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23 Responses to Evangelism of NYC

  1. Solomon says:

    There is a test:
    The Ancient Christians were willing to risk their lives for the sake of the Gospel, what risk is Christians today ready for?

  2. Neal Pixley says:

    Saying : 'God to hell you liar!' doesn't seem to be love for a sinner. I remember in a consultation with an IP lawyer, he told me that everybody lies. The Bible says in more than one passage that we are all sinners. Jesus said that if he who does not forgive will not be forgiven.

  3. Neal Pixley says:

    My smartphone caused some typos in my comments above which I did not notice until after I posted it. But I believe what was posted can be understood well enough. If anyone reads it and requests clarification, I will do so.

  4. Neal Pixley says:

    At times the Holy Spirit guides us to say 'No' to other Christians. Sometimes I have said it adamantly, and sometimes I have said it with "thank you", and sometimes I have said it with "I'm sorry", and sometimes I have said it with "not at this time".

    • timlyg says:

      If that is the case, at which point would you consider the time for holy anger? and if so, what constitutes as holy anger?

  5. Neal Pixley says:

    What verses is that phrase used in the Bible ?

    • timlyg says:

      Seeing that you might be new at this, I'll start by exhorting you to "remember" / read up on passages that has to do with God's wrath. Then, look into the anger of God's holy men, and eventually at Christ, who's "Get Behind me, Satan" is actually more drastic than "Go to hell!"
      Then you can understand Why people have difficulty at even translation Psalm 76:10.
      There's a whole lot to cover. But, first things first, go look into the "Jealousy" of God in Exodus 20:4-5 in its original Hebrew language. Then Paul alluded to something similar in 2 Corinthians 11:2-3. That can be a good starting point on holy anger. I had the blessing of learning this for one of Dr. Stephen Tong's non-English lecture series on the Sanctification of various emotions. What I just shared is only a tenth of the chapter on holy anger.

      Of course, there must be distinction between holy anger and selfish vengeance. I would say, a lot of times, though not always, holy anger is kindled when your "enemies" are actually sort of "supporting" you, instead of attacking you, despising you, disgusting you. If you gather the context of my original post, you'll know what I mean.

      When you've covered that, perhaps we can discuss more interesting parts of it.

      I never Work better than when I am inspired by anger; when I am angry, I can write, pray, and preach well, for then my whole temperament is quickened, my Understanding sharpened, and all mundane vexations and temptations depart. - Martin Luther

  6. Neal Pixley says:

    There are some Internet sites with narratives about 'righteous anger'. I will acknowledge that I am somewhat biased in favor of the 'Got Questions ' one.

  7. Neal Pixley says:

    Does Stephen Tong have any English lyrics of songs which he's written on the internet ? Is he 'Pak Tong' who you briefly mentioned on a different posting ? It seems that you have a very high regard for his ministry . I saw some things about him on Wikipedia.

  8. Neal Pixley says:

    Does Stephen Tong have any English lyrics of songs which he's written on the internet ? Is he 'Pak Tong' who you briefly mentioned on a different posting ? It seems that you have a very high regard for his ministry . I saw some things about him on Wikipedia.

  9. Neal Pixley says:

    I know almost nothing about the person, (or your encounters with him), who wanted you to be involved in a 'leaderless ministry'. I was just troubled by the written statement "go to hell, you liar". I apologize if it offended you.

    • timlyg says:

      I'm sorry, been a bit preoccupied with work projects lately.

      I think I documented all problem with the pastor (Laura Lin) and church enough in my journal you can search for them. But I didn't say this "go to hell..." to her. I would have, hence this written entry, if she pushed any further. I think it was necessary if I was seriously in fellowship with those I believe serving God with me. Otherwise, I feel irresponsible or even indifferent towards them by just simply saying "no". This, only in such case where someone make it look like God's calling me but I don't believe so, I take it a serious offense.

      As for the phrase "Go to hell", I don't define it as the secular see it. Hell just means a place or state without God. So, instead of saying "You are pretending to act as if that what God's telling you", I'd rather make it short and say "Go to hell". I didn't say this eventually because as expected, the pastor was never serious about all these roles she wanted me to be participating in in the first place. So a simply "no" would suffice, but this is no "simple no". It has anger in it, hence the awaiting "go to hell".

      The kind of case resonate deeply with the passage in 1 Kings 13. Where the man of God was actually "tricked" by an old prophet which eventually caused him his life. Now the interesting part is I actually believe that the old prophet is saved for eternity, despite disagreement from probably many, since they would feel this old prophet was such a liar. It was wrong of that old prophet to lie, but his desire to get close to God (Heaven) is commendable. Hence, the Israelites respected his tomb. On the other hand, I had been thinking about how the young man of God should have responded...and after much struggling, if he had rebuked the old prophet even by saying "go to hell" or "Satan get behind me", would be quite alright, as long as he realize he's doing it before God in all holiness.

      Elijah could command destructive fire in moments like this. Moses could destroy the tablets with God's approval. And I don't even have to go to Revelations 11:5, etc.

      The only serious response I could remember saying to a pastor was when I decided to leave a church and being asked by the pastor (after trying all other sorts of ways to make me stay): What about the choir, who's going to lead them?
      I responded with stern anger: Let God handle His own work!
      Of course, this is not an offense to God, if you get the gist.

  10. Neal Pixley says:

    For me, due to some passages in the Pauline Epistles, I would not want to get involved in a Church ministry where a woman is in a position of the highest authority. It is a controversial issue for many people, but it seems very clear to me.

    • timlyg says:

      There are cases where the woman who is in the "highest authority", didn't want to be in that position. Even in the Bible.

      But of course, you can usually tell by the denominations. The denominational rules are very clear on permitting female pastors or not. PCA, such as Redeemer, does not allow female pastors, so Kathy Keller could just keep frustrating herself; EPC such as Central Presbyterian Church, permits female pastors. So even if you don't see female pastors now, you shouldn't be surprise when you do in the future.

      I personally am okay with female pastors, but I do emphasize male is preferred. And if there is presence of female pastors, then first of all, something is wrong with the male members of that church, such as in Judges 4. Secondly, there could be doctrinal problem at the level of family structure, such as what Paul mentioned.

  11. Neal Pixley says:

    I'm okay with female preachers or ministry leaders in Churches. But not as the Senior Pastor (or Minister, Reverend, Elder, etc.) I'm not comfortable with the title 'Pastor' for a woman. There were OT women Prophets . And husband and wife Priscilla and Aquila in the NT Church

    • timlyg says:

      I would say Deborah was more than just a prophet. She took on a role that was meant for men, and judged over Israel. I don't see how there's any way wiggling out of that interpretation. There's no way to explain Deborah in a position comfortably fit for a woman, be it prophetess, judgess, advisoretta, or otherwise.

      I see the Bible more organic than being restraint by terminology. Hence, the answer I gave was a "Yes & No" answer in this case. A state of answer many often get confused about. For example, because of this, I can see that Barak was reprimanded by Deborah (others may try to find many excuses for Barak, of course). When others complaint to me how this results or that causes were due to a pastor being a woman, I was able to respond with examples that male pastors have exactly the same problem.

      Very rarely have they rightly pointed out where having a female pastor is a problem. Most of the blames on the pastor's gender was due to personal qualms. For that, I must speak for the female pastors. But of course, you have already invalidated female pastors, so you could just disregard that.

      On the other hand, when a church supports the right for women to be pastors, this church is not only rebellious against the word (in general) of God, but will also be the cause of many corruption in the world: destruction of family structure ordained by God, etc.

      I have recently been asked (by men) of that previous church I attended, why the transition of work now (some church works that I'm still doing for that church) from me to others. I responded, "after more than 4 years, I think it's about time for those in the church to be responsible for those routine church works rather that those who is not part of that local church" - I should have appended with "Don't you think?"

      I think if they really are that impotent, I may have to extend the grace a little more to them, but not without more pronounced reprimand. Now I'm not Deborah nor a woman, but I think the analogy applies.

  12. Neal Pixley says:

    I think of the term 'Pastor' as being a shepherd. I try to honor my mother and I do learn things and enjoy fellowship with women. But at my age (60) I am not comfortable in thinking of a woman as my shepherd. I do submit to women's authority in secular contexts.

  13. timlyg says:

    Noted. Just out of curiosity, would you have walked out of a church you visit simply because the pastor is a woman? Or would you not have attend any church where you couldn't ascertain such basic information before hand (ah, thanks to the age of internet).

  14. Neal Pixley says:

    I wouldn't walk out of a service for that reason. Now, I do not visit Churches of which I don't know anyone or if I know very little about. I was much more explorative when I was younger. I guess I would visit places if I was provadentially convicted to.

  15. Neal Pixley says:

    Sorry that I spelled 'providentially' wrong in my previous posting above.

    • timlyg says:

      I supposed one might find me more rebellious as I would treat these female pastors as I would if they were male, but that is alright.

  16. Neal Pixley says:

    Due to a passage in a Pauline Epistle, I usually think of a woman as a "weaker vessel". But that might apply only in a marriage relationship. I'm not sure. I remember in a Sunday school class at a large Presbyterian Church someone said that Paul wrote that because he was a male chauvinist.

  17. Neal Pixley says:

    It was Peter who used the phrase "weaker vessel" , but Paul also wrote about different roles for men and women , especially in the Church. In the OT some women were judges.

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