I am honored to know such Malaysian as Ron Choong. A very talented theologian whom I think lives in NYC. He appears to be working with Tim Keller closely in his ACT (The Academy for Christian Thought) where they always setup a booth at the coffee lounge of Hunter College after the Sunday Services. It seemed that he had taught Sunday classes at Redeemer as well.
Choong's credentials are remarkable. He appears to know all the chief classical languages of Biblical times, in addition to French, German and the Malaysian languages. Lots of ongoing academic activities (PhD level) with focus in Princeton University. He is said to be an ordained PCA minister, though I don't see how he could find the time to pastor in his busy archeological career, unless he is one of those pastors who do not truly pastor but merely give talks on stages, write books and sit on their fame.
However, his non-historical view of Adam is incredibly disturbing. If Adam were a bunch of primates/hominids, then how would one go about original sin, etc. Would he approve of a non-historical Jesus as well?
Even if this theistic evolution is hypothetically correct, as Machen and Warfield (though they did not deny a historical Adam) had admitted, I still say that these people jump the gun a tad too soon. This is one of the reasons I am convinced that slow (in Math, etc.) is sometimes better. There are just too much unknown variables.
Nevertheless, his rare interest in the ancient central Asia and the Metropolitan Museum could be useful to my pursuit in similar area.
I recently learned there is a book called 'Four Views on Historical Adam '. Several years ago I took a course based on 'Four Views on Hell'. The subject of Hell appears to be Dr Choong 's more recent foray into controversy.
Thanks for the info, Neal. I believe that the belief in historical Adam and that he was not a product of evolution is rather important in many doctrines: how we view the Bible, salvation, etc. However, I also believe that it is not necessary to limit the creation of the universe to mere 6000 years. All this belief of mine grounds in scripture.
I do not take the Genesis account as something written for a time without knowledge of science, viz. evolution (which was a notion long discovered before Christ by the likes of Aristotle).
I see a lot of higher criticism and comparative religious study trade off much of the authenticity of the Bible as the word of God, and thus, they often look down on the intellect of our ancestors.
The way I think of it is that truth is greater than and will remain long after any clever intellectual contrivances are forgotten. - Also however, intellect can serve purposes of finding more truth, if that is the objective.
I don't know what to say to that, except that whatever we do, clever or otherwise, for or against God, will ultimately, inevitably glorify God. The only thing that matters is do we intend to glorify Him or not?
I agree. Perhaps what I wrote last night was impulsively rushed and not thought through prayerfully. I will try to clarify more carefully soon. I consider that what we are writing are blessings for us and other readers and can be glorifying God.
Amen to that, brother.
I wrote some lengthy paper drafts to try and clarify better what I posted above, and repeatedly tried unsuccessfully to post them with different computers. Maybe The Lord wants me to rewrite a better version and try again. I intend to but I keep getting distracted. Sorry.
It's ok. Stephen Tong will be coming to New York City in 11/3 this year. You are welcome to come, if curious.
http://www.cccny.org/event.html
As far as I can tell, you should be able to post anything successfully. And nothing of yours is being filtered.
I am planning to go, Lord willing. I'm not sure how long I'll stay as I don't know how long the program will last. I have some family responsibilities that I will need to plan around. Thanks for the invite.
Some of my views:
The intellect of our ancestors who lived with their own faith, based on what God revealed to them, are things that The Lord providentially provided for our benefit. For the past several years I've been blessed by a 'Bible Handbook' authored by an American Theologian named Merrill Unger, who left this world more than 30 years ago . I'm sure there were many people before him and with him who The Lord used to bless him . There was a preacher I listened to, at a Church where I am a member, for a good number of years who often used the phrase "pass the baton".
When I wrote of 'clever intellectual contrivances' I had in mind personal memories of people denying the value and authority of Christian doctrines , (as per Ephesians 4:14) . [ Of course the Christian doctrines I'm speaking of are in accordance with how I understand them, which is how I believe The Lord has ordained to reveal them to me for His purposes. I realize that other people, Christian and otherwise will not agree with everything I think or say. I am very much at peace with my personal convictions that my Christian faith is ultimately between myself and The Lord. To some extent, I am sympathetic with Dr. Choong's inclusivist leanings, although I also disagree in some ways about it, and some other things, and have told him so. - Everyone is different, and only the Lord Jesus Christ was and is and will be always the truth about everything. (My understanding of the tri-unity of God is limited) ] .
When I was a young adult I drifted in and out of agnosticism and atheism for awhile due to ; witnessing hypocrisy among other Christians , exposure to intellectual contrivances , and my own prideful idolatries . During those times, The Lord persistently sent people into my life who patiently witnessed and explained the truths I was confused about. Now I want to focus my trusting to keep learning and increasing understanding of the Biblical Scriptural Word. Now, I view any intellectual contrivances, which I perceive as being in conflict with the Biblical Scriptural Word, are the results of deceitful, prideful, idolatrous elements. Such intellectual contrivances become exposed as untrue and eventually fade to insignificance, (at least for me). - The name of Jesus Christ is above every other man's name and the Bible is the all time, world wide, best selling book.
Concerning my comment about 'intellect can serve purposes of finding more truth' ; I think that Psalm 19:1-4 and Romans 1:19,20 can be understood as supporting the idea that the work of different scientific research will teach us more about God, as the author and sustainer of all creation, which we inhabit .
It was a good experience. I thought the architecture was well maintained. I put forty dollars cash in the mail a few hours afterwards. I guess now I'm on his mailing list.
I don't think they keep much of a mailing list, because there isn't much organized U.S. team. At least not anymore nor was any that existed long lasting. Long distance, etc. you get the point. Nor had such list ever used for fund raising. For a direct English version, he was on Ligonier (R.C. Sproul) 500 Reformation conference earlier this year and spoke against fund raising. I think he spoke twice.
If you love architect, you can take a look at the church he designed (he really loves art) back home in Jakarta: just google GRII Church. The tall building next to the church is their seminary. The church's museum should be somewhere nearby too.
I worked for a Korean architect in the nineties. He did alot of Church buildings in this country before he lost his practice here and went back to South Korea (last I heard about him).
Too bad I couldn't get to meet you that day. I rushed there from work after 9PM.
Was Stephen Tong still there when you got to the Church ?
Yea. They were singing Fanny Crosby's Near the Cross, last hymn in the program, I think. I managed to greet him. He still remembered me as a friend of a friend. LOL. His only sentence to me was "Are you still serving the Lord? You must serve the Lord"
Dr. Choong is asking for alot of money now. I guess he wants to do some more traveling to add to his collection of trinkets from souvenir shops.
Sorry for the delayed response. Too much emails, but no excuse from my end.
There's a lot (even reputable ones) Christian ministry organizations in U.S. that ask for money the way Dr. Choong does. Fund Raising, etc. I oppose those kind of thing myself, it gets the motive confusing.
Although, I would say Dr. Choong does better than others when he always provides more beneficial data to his potential/patrons.
But in the end, I prefer a ministry that's entirely based on faith when it comes to money, especially when it comes to money. If a secular non-profit organization knows to base their funding on the attractiveness of their quality, I'm sure Christians can do better than fundraising beggars. This also helps in the ministry's own maturity.
What's sad is I hear everywhere in America about how Fund Raising is a necessary course/profession/field.